December 19, 2020
Two nutritionists discuss not only foods that can help fight depression, but also share what foods can cause inflammation and even depression. The relationship between depression and your diet is a new connection for many, listen in.
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JOANN: Welcome to Dishing Up Nutrition brought to you by Nutritional Weight and Wellness. Today, we're going to be discussing foods that can help us with depression.
CAROLYN: And we're not only going to be discussing foods that can help fight depression, but we will also share what foods can cause inflammation and even depression. So what foods do you think increase depression? If you said sugar and processed carbs, you are absolutely correct. You might be thinking, “Okay, what does inflammation have to do with depression?” I'm sure most of you thought that inflammation is what caused your knee to swell up and hurt when you tripped and fell on it. But inflammation can actually increase depression. So Joann, before we get into our topic this morning, let's take a minute and introduce ourselves.
JOANN: Sounds good. Good morning, Carolyn. It's good to be here with you today. And my name is Joann Ridout and I've been a Registered and Licensed Dietitian for more than 30 years. I worked at Courage Center for about 25 years before I came to Nutritional Weight and Wellness. So I worked with many clients who were suffering from depression. And today I work with many clients who are experiencing perimenopause or menopause and they are experiencing a different type of depression. So the common thread of all types of depression is the foods you eat can affect your depression. And you know that 30 years ago, nobody was connecting food choices or diet to depression.
CAROLYN: They weren't connecting food choices to a lot of things, right Joann?
JOANN: A lot of people still don't.
CAROLYN: Yeah. So I really agree with you, Joann. So back then when we both started our careers, there wasn't anyone who was connecting what people ate to depression. So good morning everyone. I'm Carolyn Hudson, and Joann and I have a couple of things in common. I've also been a Registered and Licensed Dietitian for more than 30 years. And as dietitians, you know, over the years, we have both seen extreme swings in nutrition advice.
CAROLYN: I can think back to…
JOANN: Extreme, yeah. So everything from telling people that eggs are bad for you; right? Well, and I still hear that from many of my clients because the doctors are still telling them that, right?
JOANN: Some doctors, yeah.
CAROLYN: …to telling them that they should now. “Oh yeah. It's okay. Have several eggs weekly to support your brain function.” So in recent years, researchers found that eggs from hens that roam out in the pasture, eating grass and worms: those eggs contain a special fat that helps your brain function better. That fat is one of the omega-3 fatty acids called DHA. So this DHA is also found in breast milk and from algae that eat fish. So that's one of the reasons why breastfeeding is so important.
JOANN: Yes, absolutely. And you may notice with those eggs that have come from pastured eggs that, pastured chickens, that the yolk is orange.
CAROLYN: Yeah. They are a deeper color aren’t they?
JOANN: Yes. And that's a sign of a really good egg. So you may want to remember that fact. So today we will focus on the brain and the relationship between depression and your diet.
CAROLYN: So recently you may have seen the following headlines: “Depression triples in the U.S. adults amid COVID-19 stressors.”
CAROLYN: Well, I can so believe that. This has been a very stressful time for everyone. So this was reported because of the findings in a study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. This study found that 28% of adults reported having symptoms of depression since the start of coronavirus pandemic compared to only eight and a half percent before COVID-19.
CAROLYN: That's amazing. So that's like a 20% increase Joann.
JOANN: At least four times as much. Yep. That's a lot. And during this stressful time, it is even more important to choose your food carefully to support your immune system and also to support your brain health. In the past, very few people connected their food choices to their brain health and depression, and many people today understand what they eat can affect their risk of getting heart disease. And most of them have also made the connection between their diet and type-two diabetes. And our long-time listeners now connect what they eat to their aches and pains. However, very few people know the connection of their food choices to depression and their brain health. So when I ask clients experiencing depression, what do I, “What do you eat?” They often reply, “I'm just not motivated. So I often eat anything that's handy; maybe fast food; maybe junk food because I'm too tired to cook.” And I see that in front of me all the time. My son: often he does suffer from anxiety and depression. He often makes three corn dogs for breakfast.
CAROLYN: Oh boy.
JOANN: And a pizza for dinner. So there's a lot of inflammation there, but he doesn't want to hear what I think about that and how it may affect him.
CAROLYN: Yeah. I've been seeing long lines at the fast food places. I'm just, I'm stunned every time I drive by, especially around the lunch hour or the dinner hour, I see these long lines of cars out into the street from the drive through. It's just crazy.
JOANN: Well, and it's just not, you know, about what's happening with, with, we see so many people in that age range that are really kind of living on fast food.
CAROLYN: Exactly. So one of my clients shared that she basically lives on Coke every day and grabs food at the nearest fast food place. And her diet is totally lacking in nutrients. So the nutrients: these are needed for her brain to function. And her diet basically is made up of inflammatory and damaging foods full of sugar. And of course those refined oils. Remember: those oils… our brain is a lot of fat, so we don't want bad oils in our diet. And many food chemicals and food dyes. This is often the type of diet that many people have lived on for years. And it's a diet totally void of critical nutrients for brain function. So I like to compare it to this. You know, if you don't put gasoline in your car, you're going to be driving down the highway and what's going to happen? You're going to run out of gas. At first, you know, it starts to sputter a little bit and then it slowly dies because it no longer has any gas in the tank. So the same thing actually happens with our brain, only we can call it fatigue and depression when we're out of gas, right? So it's just amazing.
JOANN: It is amazing. And that's a really good analogy. So it's so true. And again, in the past, the cause of depression was thought of, and I remember learning this when I was at Courage Center listening to in-services about the topic. It was a biochemical problem. It was a biochemical imbalance, or maybe it was a genetic problem, or even that the depression was emotionally rooted, such as having a poor childhood. But not surprising to us is that many studies now have found poor nutrition plays a key role, not only in the onset of depression, but also the severity of the depression; plus the length of time the depression will go on.
CAROLYN: So currently because of the extra stress we are living with due to COVID-19, it's really important to feed our brain the key nutrients your brain needs to counteract your current stress. So if you don't understand what your brain needs to avoid depression, how can you possibly achieve and maintain good brain functioning and be free of depression? So what are some of those brain nutrients? It may surprise you that these nutrients come from food and not medication. So Joann, it's just about time for our first break.
JOANN: It is.
CAROLYN: So you are listening to Dishing Up Nutrition brought to you by Nutritional Weight and Wellness. Today, we are sharing our expertise about foods that can help decrease depression. And we will also talk about some of the foods that can increase depression as well. I think we've kind of talked about those a little bit already.
JOANN: We have.
CAROLYN: We have some success stories to share with you too. So if, if you need to hear something uplifting, I want you to stay tuned. And we'll be right back.
JOANN: Welcome back to Dishing Up Nutrition. When you turn on the TV, you hear story after story about the hardship of COVID-19. So many people are struggling. And today about two-thirds of adults are either overweight or obese. And because many people are working from home, the numbers on the scale are increasing. And I've heard so many clients say the refrigerator's right there, and it's a struggle. And I usually encourage them to pack their lunch and have it sitting in a little box so you're not in the refrigerator. Anyway, but that aside, one of our clients, Kathleen, had a great success story. And because of the mandates on restaurants due to the coronavirus, Kathleen is no longer eating out. So she is now cooking real food at home. So she has lost 24 and a half pounds just in the past few, probably several weeks. And Kathleen is now thinner than she's been in years and she's feeling great. So what was her secret? Since she's doing all of her own cooking, she's only cooking with real, natural fats like butter and coconut oil, avocado oil, olive oil and cream. Refined oils no longer pass through her lips; 24 and a half pounds and feeling great. So who knew eating butter could help you lose weight; right?
CAROLYN: Right. And it tastes so good!
JOANN: It does. So I have another great story while we're on a roll here. I have a client that I'm working with. Her name is Helen. She has lost 43 pounds so far, and she's been working on the Nutrition for Weight Loss plan since April. And I was complimenting her huge success and she replied, “Well, I'm just following the plan.”
JOANN: Good for you! Some people struggle to follow the plan. And she is just following, following, following. So the bonus for Helen, in addition to her 43 pounds is she gave me all… last time I met with her she gave me all of her cholesterol numbers, and her cholesterol dropped from 230 to 198. Her triglycerides went from 147 down to 98.
CAROLYN: Wow. Nice!
JOANN: Those are two numbers that came down very nicely. And the good cholesterol, the HDL, went up. So it went up from actually 37 to 44; so in a better place. In addition, another lab value, her thyroid hormone, is reduced. So that is in a better place. All these numbers are signs of less inflammation in her body. So she is feeling a lot healthier these days. So congratulations!
CAROLYN: Yeah. Congratulations, Helen! Wow. That's wonderful. You know, before we were going to break, we were talking about, of course the foods that can increase or the foods that can decrease our depression. And I mentioned one of our clients that kind of lives on Coke and fast food and all of those refined oils. And you were just talking about those good oils, right Joann? Those, the butter, the olive oil, olives, avocados. You know, the cream, those are all, and they're all taste so wonderful.
JOANN: Healthy, natural fats.
CAROLYN: So let's throw out those refined oils and whenever possible, you know, just avoid all of that stuff. Get rid of those. You don't need them in your house any longer; right?
JOANN: Exactly. So you can't think your way to good mental health or less depression, but you can eat to support the nutrients for a well-functioning brain. Again, you also need to sleep a good eight, nine hours to detox your brain of your past negative thoughts. And you need to move your body; getting a little exercise, even a walk: that helps your blood circulation. And that will all help to carry these key nutrients throughout your body to get to your brain where they need to be. So I'd like to share an example of a client story here too. A few years ago, one of our clients was a freshman in college and she had to withdraw from school because of her anxiety got so severe, she had to pull out and stop taking classes for awhile. So she came in. Her mom got her in to see a nutritionist at Nutritional Weight and Wellness. And for her, she had to give up gluten and dairy because some people with sensitive brains do need to give up that, especially gluten, but both gluten and dairy. Three months later, she was feeling great; eating real food. She was able to return to school and did very well. So she started eating real food: real meat, vegetables, and healing fats. And the school worked with her to make sure that the foods were available that she needed. So that was wonderful.
CAROLYN: Yeah. And you mentioned the gluten and the dairy, so to connect those dots. So in some people it's not like a true allergy, you know, but, but what happens is those things cause inflammation.
CAROLYN: And then that's going to be that roller-coaster or the big ball rolling.
CAROLYN: And create that depression or could lead to anything, right?
JOANN: Yes, definitely.
CAROLYN: So researchers and mental health practitioners examined the diets of depressed people and found that depressed people made really poor food choices, and they actually selected foods that contributed to their depression.
JOANN: Right, yeah. We've talked about some examples of that. And then as researchers started digging into the brain, the biochemistry of depressed people, they found that low levels of the neurotransmitter, serotonin, was linked to the participants being insensitive to others or engaging in impulsive or risky behavior. Of course, these participants also had low moods. They lacked motivation. So overall the deficiencies in many of the major brain neurotransmitters, such as serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine and GABA were associated with depression. So when you are dishing up your plate for lunch or dinner, what do you need to include in your meal to have the key nutrients to produce that serotonin and dopamine and norepinephrine and GABA? So this may come as a big surprise to you as to learn that all of your neurotransmitters are made with animal protein; so that is one of the key reasons we are such big proponents of that animal protein. So instead of eating a plant burger or a black bean burger, switch to steak, bison, chicken, salmon, or eggs; great protein sources that will feed your brain.
CAROLYN: Well, we're already ready for break number two here. So you are listening to Dishing Up Nutrition. Maybe your goal in 2021 is to lose weight, perhaps even that 24 and a half pounds. I have a suggestion for you: maybe you should sign up for one of our Nutrition for Weight Loss series that starts the week of January 19th. Kathleen, who we mentioned earlier, took the 12-week Nutrition for Weight Loss series some time ago, but she never put what she had learned into practice. However, when the pandemic restrictions on eating and restaurants came out, it encouraged her, more like forced her, I guess, to cook at home and apply what she learned throughout the Nutrition for Weight Loss series. It was then that she began to lose the weight and was able to shed those 24 and a half pounds. She now has the knowledge to nourish herself to better health, which resulted in her weight loss: a 24 and a half pound weight loss to be exact. So call (651) 699-3438 to sign up and ask your questions. And we'll be right back.
JOANN: Welcome back to Dishing Up Nutrition. I have another great success story to share right now. So this story is almost too good to be true, but it is true. In the past several months, Donna has lost 71 and a half pounds. And you heard that right. I said 71 and a half pounds.
CAROLYN: That's amazing!
JOANN: Isn't that amazing? That's a whole body transformation. She went from a size 18 to a size eight and she feels fantastic. Donna said, now that I am 71 and a half pounds lighter, it is so easy for me to get up off the floor when I exercise. She also said, “You know, I'm a retired person.” And I decided to take advantage of this opportunity of the pandemic to take care of my health. All of Donna's blood chemistry numbers are normal and her thyroid function is improved. Donna had also taken the Nutrition for Weight Loss series and used her new-found knowledge to make all of the necessary changes she learned to make these positive changes in her health. So then she spread the great news to her family and friends, and she had some sisters join and each of them lost more than 50 pounds each.
CAROLYN: Wow. That is just a wonderful. I love those stories.
JOANN: Think about all those pounds for falling on the floor.
CAROLYN: Yeah, that is great. So, I have a story I can share. So one of our clients gave a testimonial after she had met with one of our dietitians and nutritionists. She lost 25 pounds, but was also surprised at how much happier she felt and less anxious. She, she was really feeling very, very anxious before she had taken our classes and met with one of our dietitians. And she was diagnosed actually many years ago with OCD and depression. And she's, she said, I quote, “I never would have believed that eating well could change how I felt mentally, but it did. That has been just an amazing benefit of my new eating plan.” When I don't eat well I notice I am more irritable, anxious, and depressed. So those experiences have motivated me to stay on my Weight and Wellness eating plan.” Isn't that great? I love it. I love it when our clients can connect those dots.
CAROLYN: And then they're motivated to stay on plan, you know, and, and I tell my clients, you know, “You're not going to be perfect all the time.”
CAROLYN: Don't expect that. But if you can just, you know, this is a lifestyle. This is the way we should be eating: those healthy fats and good animal protein.
CAROLYN: And lots of vegetables, you know?
JOANN: Yes. Yeah; great points there.
CAROLYN: So, and talking about animal protein, animal protein actually supplements the building blocks for the production of all of our neurotransmitters. It's those amino acids that actually build our, our neurotransmitters. So we make our own serotonin and dopamine and norepinephrine and GABA when we eat animal protein. So the animal protein again is made up of those amino acids. And those are the building blocks of life. A diet in high quality animal protein contains all of those essential amino acids. And those foods are rich in high quality proteins. That includes like meats and dairy and fish and eggs. So your protein intake can affect the functioning of your brain and your mental health.
JOANN: That's right. And so clients who battle with depression are stunned when they start eating the Weight and Wellness way with about a hundred grams of protein. I actually had a vegetarian client who switched back to adding some fish into her diet because she noticed such a big change. She had so much more energy when she added animal protein in. So she figured out a way to get it there. So, so many people say they feel better. They have more energy. They start feeling happy and upbeat and motivated to get things done. Protein is broken down into amino acids in the small intestinal tract. And with the help of bifidobacteria, these amino acids make our brain chemicals. The neurotransmitter, dopamine, is made from the amino acid, tyrosine, and the neurotransmitter, serotonin, is made from the amino acid, tryptophan. So when you don't eat sufficient animal protein, you lack key amino acids, then low moods, anxiety, and lack of motivation can set in.
CAROLYN: So I just want to say a little bit about that bifido and your gut, you know, we make 95% of our serotonin and probably most of our neurotransmitters in our gut.
CAROLYN: So that's really important.
JOANN: That is very important. And I, this reminds me of a client story. I worked with a new client a few months ago that actually my brother referred to see me: a friend of his and his wife's. And she struggled with anxiety and some low moods. She wanted to lose a few pounds. And after I explained that connection: the bifido and the animal protein work together to help us make brain chemicals such as serotonin. I remember in meeting with her, and we were meeting over Zoom, it was just like a light bulb went off. And she was a hundred percent on board. And she was a person who followed everything that I said to the letter, which made her very successful. Within a month she talked about her energy. She talked about her stable mood; the good mood, but also the few more pounds that she was working on losing. And it was just great. So I talked to my brother a few days ago and he said, “Every time I talk to her, she's singing your praises.” And I said, “She is the one who did the hard work.”
CAROLYN: Right; yeah.
JOANN: She followed everything that was said.
CAROLYN: Yeah. It's often very easy for us to tell our clients to do this.
CAROLYN: But it's our clients that are doing the hard work for sure.
JOANN: They're doing the hard work.
CAROLYN: So in addition to protein, we've already talked a little bit about fat. Our brain needs fat. The brain is actually one of the organs with the highest level of fat. So approximately one-third of the fat in our brain belongs to the omega-3 family, which we get from our diet, from those cold water fatty fish that we eat. And research has found when we lower our plasma cholesterol through the use of medication, the rate of depression actually increases.
CAROLYN: So this means that your brain needs both fat and cholesterol to be happy and functioning well. So the main fat in the brain is the omega-3 fat called DHA. And I already kind of mentioned that a little bit earlier. So what’s so interesting is that breast milk and some high quality baby formulas also contain bifidobacteria and this omega-3 DHA fat. So these high quality ingredients ensure the health of the brain and the neuro development in the brains of babies. So the diet is so important for the brain development of infants, young children, teens, and adults. That's pretty amazing. Don't you think, Joann?
JOANN: It really is. And just a side note: I'm always so proud when I, I read through or hear the section about DHA and breastfeeding. My daughter has breastfed both of her babies and they are the healthiest babies that you can look at. They’re so healthy and happy. It's so good to see.
CAROLYN: So, so good. Yeah. I love it.
JOANN: And so nutrition and depression are so closely linked. A study in neuropsychology found that when clients were supplemented with nine key vitamins, their moods improved. Their moods improved particularly with vitamin B12, folate and B6. And so when you follow the Weight and Wellness eating plan with meat, vegetables, and natural fat, you are supplying your brain with these key vitamins.
CAROLYN: And Joann, I'm going to cut you off there. And we'll, we'll circle back to that, but it's already time for break three. So you're listening to Dishing Up Nutrition. And we are sharing some of our success stories with you. We have many clients who decided the pandemic restrictions were the perfect opportunity to make some positive changes in their health. Not only did the number on the scales go down, but their size, their smaller sizes, said that it was time to buy new clothes. However, the most significant improvements were the fact that their blood tests all improved. Their energy increased. Their aches and pains went away. So if you're looking for changes in some or all of these areas, I encourage you to check out our virtual classes on our website, weightandwellness.com, or call us at (651) 699-3438. And let us help you find the right class for you. And we will be right back.
JOANN: Welcome back to Dishing Up Nutrition. Perhaps you or a family member is struggling with depression or anxiety. And it may make sense to set up a one-on-one appointment with one of our Weight and Wellness dietitians or nutritionists. Our goal is to help you make the necessary changes in your food choices to help support good brain function. We understand that change often takes time. Most people need the support to make those changes. Many health insurance companies understand the value of nutrition counseling and they financially support these appointments. Change is a process, but the greatest gift you can give a family member is a gift of feeling well during this very unusual time. So call us at (651) 699-3438, and we will help you find the best person to work with you.
CAROLYN: So Joann, I have a great story from one of our Dishing Up Nutrition listeners. This is Chris, and he said, I quote, “Dishing Up Nutrition changed my life. I tell everyone I meet how awesome the podcast is and how much it's changed my life. I'm not on a diet. I'm changing my lifestyle.” And he goes on to say that, “After listening to Dishing Up Nutrition for about a year…” And I hear this a lot from our clients. It takes them awhile to actually come in and talk to us.
CAROLYN: He drastically changed his diet to the way we eat at Nutritional Weight and Wellness. He noticed that he and his girlfriend didn't fight anymore and bicker as much. Isn't that amazing?
JOANN: That's good.
CAROLYN: One time he said that they were traveling and they were eating junk and fast food and stuff. And he said they had the worst argument they ever had. And he finally put two and two together and became a true believer in eating real food. So I love that story.
JOANN: That's great.
CAROLYN: It’s one of the ones that we have on our website.
JOANN: That's a good story. So before we went to break, we were talking about a study in neuropsychology that found when clients were supplemented with nine key vitamins, their moods improved. And their moods improve particularly with the B vitamins: vitamin B12, folate and B6. So when you follow the Weight and Wellness eating plan with meat, vegetables, and natural fat, you're supplying your brain with these key vitamins. Of course, supplementing with a quality B vitamin, such as Methyl B Complex, which contains thiamine, B6, folate, and B12, is always a good insurance policy for good brain health and improve moods. And especially now with all of the excess stress we're experiencing, we actually use up these key B vitamins faster when we're under stress; all the more reason to keep eating real food at this very critical time. We also use up our neurotransmitters faster. So it is important to eat 10 ounces or 12 ounces or 14 ounces of animal protein every single day. And remember: protein is the building block of serotonin, dopamine and all 200 of your brain chemicals: your neurotransmitters.
CAROLYN: Yeah, 200 of them. That's a lot. So we need those B vitamins. We need protein, but also Joann, we need vitamin D.
JOANN: We do; very important.
CAROLYN: And here we are; we're in Minnesota; winter months. We're not getting any vitamin D from the sun any longer. So your vitamin D level can really go down. And it really affects your moods, you know, that seasonal affective disorder: SAD.
CAROLYN: A lot of that is due to low vitamin D. So our levels should be between like 50, 80, 90, you know, most doctors and clinics say, “Oh, you're okay at 20 or 30,” you know, but that's not true. So a study that was done in 2008, it had 1200 65 year-old plus with depression showed a 14% lower vitamin D level than those without depression. So I think we all should be supplementing with vitamin D here in Minnesota, at least, and all of the Northern States.
JOANN: Just to throw in a bit about COVID, vitamin D is well-researched in, in being very COVID protective and protecting people from the lung infestation that can happen with COVID. So…
CAROLYN: So, on a number of past shows, we have discussed how eating sugar can lead to an imbalance in blood sugar and excess insulin. Remember, in order to avoid low moods, we encourage our clients to eat meals in balance. So that means what? That means eating a protein, a fat, and a carbohydrate to avoid that blood sugar roller-coaster ride that can leave them feeling tense and anxious. So it is very confusing when we used to think that sugar was quick energy or a boost or pick me up, but now we have come to realize that those sugary treats are actually downers. So today is December 19th and we are in the midst of sugar and spice holiday season. Oh my goodness.
JOANN: Yes we are.
CAROLYN: Everything around the corner, there is an abundance of homemade cookies and candy and truffles and eggnog and lattes and well-meaning party hosts and friends pushing those high sugary treats on us. What are some of the other things that you think of Joann?
JOANN: I always think about some of the coffee drinks that people are drinking and, you know, the pumpkin spice.
CAROLYN: Oh yeah.
JOANN: But not just the pumpkin spice, but the mochas and those kinds of things. And those, those coffee beverages can spike your blood sugar. And even black coffee spikes your blood sugar, which a lot of people don't realize, so as a result can also spike the anxiety and depression. And then what about alcohol?
CAROLYN: Oh yeah. And it’s the season, is it not?
JOANN: It is. So that also spikes anxiety and it also makes you unable to sleep.
CAROLYN: Well, they say that you can't really celebrate the holidays if you don't load up on these special holiday treats. Really?
JOANN: I'm not so sure about that.
CAROLYN: Yeah. Really, I don’t, I'm not doing any baking this year at all.
JOANN: I did a little, but actually, my sister and I, and my mom baked last weekend for a little bit, and we were, I told my sister, I said, “I need, we need least two gluten-free recipes.”
CAROLYN: Okay, good. Yeah.
JOANN: So that I can have a few. I'm not going to eat a ton of them, but a few. So that was a good change-up for us this year. So if you have managed to avoid eating any sugar, that could be because your reasonable brain remembers research telling us that those sugary treats have been known to increase depression. And guess what? And joint pain and heartburn; right? So isn't that interesting? So thinking like a dietitian, I've always wondered if the annual cookie exchange get together is causing many people to get depressed and is compromising the immune system of everyone who receives a plate or a tin full of those sugary treats during the holidays. And your immune protection actually is reduced.
JOANN: So that's important to know during this pandemic time. It seems that this holiday season has a lot of us planning to indulge on sugary sweet treats as a reward for the hardship and suffering we've had to endure throughout 2020, when we actually should be building our immune system to protect us from COVID.
CAROLYN: So unfortunately sugar often leads to depression and anxiety, which would seem to make us suffer even more. It is certainly very confusing and mixed message. So no wonder so many people are confused about what a healthy diet is. Are we eating to support our health and a sense of wellbeing, or are we eating to get that short-lived high that we must keep feeding to avoid crashing and burning? To truly enjoy the holidays and avoid getting sick, I vote for the Weight and Wellness eating plan.
JOANN: That's right.
CAROLYN: Yeah. So I can't believe it, but it is time to say goodbye. So our goal at Nutritional Weight and Wellness is to help each and every person experience better health through eating real food. It's a simple, yet very powerful message. Eating real food is life changing. And thank you all of our listeners and have a very happy and safe and healthy holiday season.